camry camry camry... brakes question

"deekster_caddy" (deekster_caddy) 09/22/2013 at 21:51 • Filed to: None

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My friends wanted my "professional" opinion on the brakes in their '04 Camry. They live on top of a steep hill, and don't use the car much. The brakes were done about 2 years ago. The pedal feels very soft, and at the bottom of their hill they are "standing on the pedal" to make the car stop. It's steep, but not all that long.

Brake fluid was clean (not dark at all), rotors are not warped. Plenty of brake pad left in front and rear. Car stops straight, will lock up/engage ABS no problem. I bled new fluid through all 4 and the pedal feel didn't change at all. There was no air in the system. I checked the rotor thickness - not below minimum. I drove it down their hill, and yeah - it feels like a lot of pedal travel to stop the car, but the car does stop. The pedal doesn't sink after stopping...

In summary, I told them they were just used to the pedal feel of their other car and that yes, there was nothing wrong with the brakes.

Question to oppo - do all Camrys have soft numb brake pedals like that? It's the first time I've worked on a recent Camry.

("Professional" means that I work on a lot of cars, but I'm not 'in the business'. It's just a severe hobby and I get a little side money helping others fix their cars sometimes. Been doing it for 20 years + and this car does have the softest functional brake feel I've ever encountered)

Blondude > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 21:55

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I (luckily) have never driven a Camry but I've heard they're deathtraps when it comes to brake and steering feel.

offroadkarter > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 21:59

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Possibly a bad master? Is it spongy pedal feel or a hard pedal feel with a lot of travel?

Maybe the brakes just flat out suck

Corey CC97, MAZDA DPI IS STILL BAE JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV VISIT FLORIDA RACING LIVES FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 21:59

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It just feels that way because it is grounded to the ground.

On a serious note, I've never driven or worked on a Camry, so I wouldn't know.

deekster_caddy > offroadkarter 09/22/2013 at 22:02

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I would think if the master were bad it would sink after stopping while holding the pedal down. There was none of that. Just a very soft pedal with a long travel. Not 'spongy' like a bad brake hose... just soft.

deekster_caddy > Blondude 09/22/2013 at 22:03

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Me neither. That's kind of what I'm thinking - the brake feel just sucks and they don't drive the car that much anymore, so forgot how sucky they feel.

deekster_caddy > Corey CC97, MAZDA DPI IS STILL BAE JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV VISIT FLORIDA RACING LIVES FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS 09/22/2013 at 22:04

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Me neither, I try to avoid them. A 9 year old new england car that's never been washed under the hood looks a bit scary when you open that thing.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 22:06

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hmmm...weird.... I've got nothing

Corey CC97, MAZDA DPI IS STILL BAE JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV VISIT FLORIDA RACING LIVES FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 22:07

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It almost seems like Camrys are bought exclusively by people who could care less about vehicle maintenance. On that basis, Toyota did a good job of getting their target audience to buy the car.

deekster_caddy > Corey CC97, MAZDA DPI IS STILL BAE JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV VISIT FLORIDA RACING LIVES FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS 09/22/2013 at 22:09

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Yeah, and they continue to run a surprisingly long time without much maintenance. But then when something does fail, it's a nightmare to fix because every bolt around it is rusted and snaps and oh crap. Disposable car. I'd rather have something that sprays a little oil around under the hood once in a while to keep things rustproof!

Squid > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 22:11

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Cheap soft pads that have no thermal capacity to withstand fade would be my diagnosis. It is probably brake fade that they are feeling. Hills induce a whole bunch of heat and wear on the brakes. A better quality pad may be what is in order.

offroadkarter > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 22:20

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I'm betting its just shit brakes. A camry isn't the kind of car that warrants a stainless steel brake line upgrade

deekster_caddy > Squid 09/22/2013 at 22:25

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It's not really that long of a hill. They feel the same cold - I don't think it's fade.

deekster_caddy > offroadkarter 09/22/2013 at 22:27

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That's actually the only thing I could think of that might help, but then again it might not make any difference... I was out of ideas so I figured I would turn to Oppo for help! Just a camry...

Squid > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 22:30

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My mom had a shitty '00 Neon, maybe a 100 foot hill would induce fade. Cheap pads fade like a mother fucker. I don't know, it could be the lines swelling up due to age, but that would be a repeatable condition on the flats. How do the brakes feel doing repeated 60-0 stops on the flats?

It could also be a case of pads and rotors glazing, or a bad transfer layer. But glazing would make some sense.

deekster_caddy > Squid 09/22/2013 at 22:34

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I didn't do repeated 60-0 stops but a couple of 50-10 hard presses and no change. Could be glazing, I can try roughing up the rotors and see if that helps a bit. That's probably the best idea yet.

Squid > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 22:46

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You got to scuff both the pads and rotors. I always forget that glazing is a possibility. it is probably one of the suckiest things to take care of because it is basically like doing a full brake job but with out new parts. . .

zadtheinhaler > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 23:13

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My landlord has a late-model Taurus (not the latest model, the previous iteration) and the brakes on that are spongy as fuck.

No, seriously - when he drives his wife's 2012 Caravan, he thinks the brakes are twitchy. He finds nothing wrong with the Taurus brakes- he thinks they're normal.

Then again, his previous vehicle was a Cavalier with an even more relaxed maintenance schedule than the average camry gets.

TheKingOfBirds > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 23:28

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How big of a hill is it? If it's long enough to overheat brakes they should be dropping into a lower gear. Or at the very least not riding them.

midnightautoparts > deekster_caddy 09/22/2013 at 23:59

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Rear brakes. If the self adjusters on the rear shoes corroded from lack of use the shoes have to travel too far to make contact. hence the low pedal. Try adjusting the rear brakes up. Drums should have just a little drag when spinning.

deekster_caddy > midnightautoparts 09/23/2013 at 07:36

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They are rear discs...

deekster_caddy > TheKingOfBirds 09/23/2013 at 07:38

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It's not that long. It's just very steep for a really short distance (right by their driveway), and still somewhat steep where they have to stop. Going down in 1st doesn't help that much, really.

midnightautoparts > deekster_caddy 09/23/2013 at 08:06

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Rotors have been turned down too far, same idea. The pads have to travel too far. Do they "pump up"?

deekster_caddy > midnightautoparts 09/23/2013 at 10:42

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No, it's pretty consistent. I mic'd the rotors and they are above minimum. Smooth, not scored much. Only a couple tiny grooves in the inner face. I couldn't find out if the last brake job included rotors or not, but there's no pulsation and the caliper pistons don't look like they are sticking out.

midnightautoparts > deekster_caddy 09/23/2013 at 21:13

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New rotors are pretty cheap. I would really start there.